The Existence of Jesus as God vs. Atheist Denial

The argument in favor of the existence of Jesus as God is much stronger and more reasonable than atheist arguments against the existence of Jesus as God.  In fact, the historical record of the development of Western Civilization is almost proof positive of the divinity of Jesus Christ.

is-jesus-really-god

Nevertheless, “almost” isn’t good enough criteria for proof positive, so what is presented here is not proof, but a reasoned argument.

But the atheist counter argument against Jesus as God is niggardly at best and thus provides easy pickin’s.

Since the argument presented here is one based on reason, there won’t be any quotes from the Bible since that would be a logical fallacy called circular reasoning.  For it is not logical to use the great tome of faith, the Bible, as an instrument of secular reasoning (something atheists do all the freaking time).

It is possible to reasonably conclude that Jesus of Nazareth was God by looking at the development of Western Civilization and comparing it to the rest of human history.

First, all civilizations grew up around religion.

That is, religion formed the core and cultural anchor of all civilizations.  That this most obvious connection between religion and civilization is completely ignored in the public education system, is striking to say the least.

That fact alone destroys all atheist arguments against religion since if the human race had stayed atheist, the great apes of world would have lots of human company in their jungle habitats.

Consequently, when we compare Christian Western Civilization with all other civilizations we are not comparing apples and oranges (another logical fallacy favorite of atheists).  We are comparing the quality of the Christian religion with the quality of all other religions with regard to the kind and quality of the civilizations they spawned.

At the center of Christianity is its founder, Jesus of Nazareth.

At the center of Western Civilization is Christianity.

Second, Christian Western Civilization is the only civilization in human history to advance beyond the slave and beast of burden as engines of the economy.

Again, that this most obvious connection between Christianity and humanity’s quantum leap into modernity is completely ignored in the public school system, is striking to say the least.

Without a doubt, Christian Western Civilization is the most prosperous, technically advanced, and most just civilization in human history.

Why?

Because of Christian moral values which led to the development of modern science, free market capitalism and authentic human rights.

No other civilization in human history developed modern science.

And it was through modern science that man was actually able to prove the existence of God by the very same scientific standards that science is able to prove anything.  Cosmology and molecular biology are two areas of science in which proof of the existence of God came about.

(For brevity, these proofs can be presented to the reader upon request in the comments section.)

The explanation of why Christian Western Civilization demonstrates that Jesus is God, is as follows:

  1. Jesus established the Christian religion.
  2. Christianity became the religion that spawned Western Civilization.
  3. Western Civilization is the only civilization in human history to have developed modern science.
  4. Modern science proved the existence of God
  5. Since only God can reveal God, Jesus of Nazareth must be God.

The argument for the divinity of Jesus is so powerful that atheists have resorted to winking him out of history just as they have sought to wink God out of existence all together.

69 responses to “The Existence of Jesus as God vs. Atheist Denial”

  1. John,

    What a great comment!

    It is quintessentially atheist and a great counterpoint to my post.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. You know I’m a fan, SOM… Although I spend a lot of time wiping the tears from historians eyes because of you 😉

      Liked by 1 person

      1. And I make Jesus cry, too!

        That one broke my heart.

        Liked by 1 person

  2. KIA,

    Read my post.

    It is full of evidence.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. No, you said yourself, its not full of proof and it is full of arguments. No evidence

      Like

      1. KIA,

        What I did in my post was make a claim and then support my claim with facts.

        I stated that I was giving all religions equal consideration (comparing apples with apples) because all civilization grew up around religion.

        Consequently, your critique is the result of you having absolutely no idea what you are talking about or that you simply did not read my post.

        Like

      2. KIA,

        The evidence I give is the history of Western Civilization, the fact that all civilizations grew up around religion, etc.

        My argument presents this evidence to support my claim, that Jesus is God.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. The fact that people believed and christianity was the basis of western civilization does nothing to prove thaT what they believed was actually true.
          Would you grant the same validity of historical foundations of eastern civilizations to Buddhism, islam, hinduism, shinto or even confucianism? I dont think so.
          What makes something tru isnt how many people believe it or the impact they made by believing it. What makes it true is that it is true.

          Liked by 1 person

  3. Thx, kind sir

    Like

  4. No, you said yourself, its not full of proof and it is full of arguments. No evidence

    Like

    1. KIA,

      What I did in my post was make a claim and then support my claim with facts.

      I stated that I was giving all religions equal consideration (comparing apples with apples) because all civilization grew up around religion.

      Consequently, your critique is the result of you having absolutely no idea what you are talking about or that you simply did not read my post.

      Like

    2. KIA,

      The evidence I give is the history of Western Civilization, the fact that all civilizations grew up around religion, etc.

      My argument presents this evidence to support my claim, that Jesus is God.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. The fact that people believed and christianity was the basis of western civilization does nothing to prove thaT what they believed was actually true.
        Would you grant the same validity of historical foundations of eastern civilizations to Buddhism, islam, hinduism, shinto or even confucianism? I dont think so.
        What makes something tru isnt how many people believe it or the impact they made by believing it. What makes it true is that it is true.

        Liked by 1 person

  5. KIA,

    The evidence I give is the history of Western Civilization, the fact that all civilizations grew up around religion, etc.

    My argument presents this evidence to support my claim, that Jesus is God.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. The fact that people believed and christianity was the basis of western civilization does nothing to prove thaT what they believed was actually true.
      Would you grant the same validity of historical foundations of eastern civilizations to Buddhism, islam, hinduism, shinto or even confucianism? I dont think so.
      What makes something tru isnt how many people believe it or the impact they made by believing it. What makes it true is that it is true.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. The fact that people believed and christianity was the basis of western civilization does nothing to prove thaT what they believed was actually true.
    Would you grant the same validity of historical foundations of eastern civilizations to Buddhism, islam, hinduism, shinto or even confucianism? I dont think so.
    What makes something tru isnt how many people believe it or the impact they made by believing it. What makes it true is that it is true.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. KIA,

    What I did in my post was make a claim and then support my claim with facts.

    I stated that I was giving all religions equal consideration (comparing apples with apples) because all civilization grew up around religion.

    Consequently, your critique is the result of you having absolutely no idea what you are talking about or that you simply did not read my post.

    Like

  8. Naturally. A-theism is content free.

    Like

    1. Right. Atheism is useless for explaining Western Culture or anything else. Civilization is built on principles (beliefs). Christianity is the driving force behind Western Civilization.

      As SOM pointed out, “Christian Western Civilization is the only civilization in human history to advance beyond the slave and beast of burden as engines of the economy”

      Were it not for Christianity, we’d all be naval gazers or jihadists.

      Like

      1. SOM is joking, you dolt.

        Like

        1. Name calling already?!!
          That was easier than I thought it would be…

          Like

          1. Dolt isn’t name-calling… And yes, SOM is joking. Can’t you read between the lines?

            Liked by 1 person

            1. There’s nothing to read between the lines, you dolt.

              No Christianity. No Western culture.

              Liked by 1 person

              1. Perhap’s you shopuld look up Poe’s Law. You kight even see a photo of SOM under the description.

                No Christianity, no Western culture? Mmm, so the Greek’s were Christian, we’re they?

                Could you also point me to the part in the bible where it discusses evolutionary theory, which is the basis of all Western medicine…

                Like

                1. Some Greeks were Christian.

                  I don’t need to point you anywhere. If you disagree with SOM’s thesis, you need to supply historical evidence to rebut it, dolt.

                  Like

                  1. Greek’s were Christian 500 years before Jesus?

                    What a tremendous grasp of history you have there, John!

                    Like

                    1. “If you disagree with SOM’s thesis, you need to supply historical evidence to rebut it, dolt.”

                      Like

                      1. I have, below.

                        But I’m more interested to hear how the founders of western democracy were Christian 500 years before Jesus.

                        That sounds interesting…

                        Like

                        1. No, dolt.
                          A rebuttal requires actual historical data. Vague references to ‘humanism’ and ‘enlightenment’ need to be substantiated.

                          For example, which enlightened thinkers championed the abolition of slavery?

                          THAT would be interesting…

                          Like

                          1. That’s easy to answer.

                            The first formal abolition of slavery was enacted in India, by Ashoka, emperor of the Maurya Dynasty, who abolished slavery in the 3rd Century BCE.

                            In China, the Qin Dynasty eliminated slaves in the late 200’s BCE. When the Qin Dynasty fell, many of these laws were overturned, only to be abolished once again in 26 BCE by Wang Mang (Xin Dynasty) who abolished slavery altogether.

                            In Europe, the first abolition of slavery occurred in Venice, 906 CE, when the Magistrate (Doge) of Venice, Pietro IV Candiano, banned it. John, Doge’s were men of the Law, not of religion. Venice was, of course, antagonistic to the Vatican.

                            It was not until 1102 when we see the church in London condemn slavery during the Council of London .

                            Slavery, however, was not banned in the UK until the legal case, Somerset v Stewart (1772). In the ruling, Lord Mansfield said:

                            ”The state of slavery is of such a nature that it is incapable of being introduced on any reasons, moral or political, but only by positive law [ statute ], which preserves its force long after the reasons, occasions, and time itself from whence it was created, is erased from memory. It is so odious, that nothing can be suffered to support it, but positive law. Whatever inconveniences, therefore, may follow from the decision, I cannot say this case is allowed or approved by the law of England; and therefore the black must be discharged”

                            Now, how about you tell me about those Greeks who were Christians 500 years before Jesus, and 600 years before Christianity…

                            Liked by 1 person

                            1. John,

                              Human life in China has the same value today as it did 3 centuries Before Christ (BC):

                              A little less than a warm bucket of spit.

                              Liked by 2 people

                            2. Enlightenment thinkers who championed the abolition of slavery?

                              Lord Mansfield also said (earlier in the same speech you cited):
                              “We pay due attention to the opinion of Sir Philip York and Mr. Talbot in the year 1729, by which they pledged themselves to the British planters for the legal consequences of bringing slaves into this kingdom, or their being baptized; which opinion was repeated and recognized by Lord Hardwicke, sitting as Chancellor on the 19th of October, 1749, to the following effect: he said, that trover would lay for a negro slave; that a notion prevailed, that if a slave came into England, or became a Christian, he thereby became emancipated; but there was no foundation in law for such a notion…”

                              Mansfield received a Christian education from Westminster School in London.

                              Like

                              1. Slavery was first abolished by non-Christians (the Indians and the Chinese long, long before even Christianity), and in Europe, first by a man of the Law, not of the cloth.

                                It seems you didn’t quite understand what your extract is actually saying, John. The opinion Mansfield is citing is pro-slavery. It confirms that Christians were front and center in the slave trade, and were merely promising emancipation as a sweetener to encourage that trade. Nothing ever happened, which motivated Mansfield to outlaw it through the Law of Man.

                                Now, how about those Greeks who were Christian 500 years before Jesus, and 600 years before Christianity…

                                Like

                                1. You do know that I have Wikipedia here too, right?

                                  Mansfield did NOT abolish slavery by himself. There were several important champions of abolition who I can’t list for you because they are devout Christians and that will upset you.

                                  The context is Western Culture, JZ. The claim is that Christianity was the driving force that propelled Western Civilization ahead of every other civilization (including the Chinese). SOM correctly indicated that Christianity eliminated the use of humans as beasts of burden. Not ALL Christians were in favor of the abolition of slavery. That’s not surprising. Unanimous consensus rarely happens on ANY topic in ANY people group.

                                  The question IS NOT ‘were there pro slavery Christians’?

                                  The question is, ‘Name enlightened/humanist thinkers who Championed the abolition of slavery’.

                                  (…and I never suggested there were Christians before Jesus. I said some Christians were Greek. Asking me if I meant pre-Christianity Greeks is a waste of time.)

                                  I’m looking forward to watching you build your case that Western culture is the result of enlightened humanism!

                                  Like

                                  1. Did I say Mansfield abolished slavery by all by himself? You do understand how a Parliamentary system works, don’t you, John?

                                    Now, John, I’d suggest you drop the slavery line. You’ve already lost. If you wish to continue then you’d first have to tell me, if Christianity is somehow innately anti-slavery, then why do we not hear a peep out of Christians until 1200 CE? If Christianity is somehow innately anti-slavery, then why was the United States flushed with slaves after its founding? You’d have to explain why in “Christian Europe” it took a man of the Law to abolish slavery first, in Venice, when Christian states were happily trading in human misery. You’d then have to explain to me why two non-Christian empires abolished slavery long before even Christianity existed. Where did that idea come from, John? And finally, you’d have to tell me where you, John, got the idea that slavery is morally reprehensible. I mean, it’s certainly not from your bible. Yhwh supports slavery, Jesus supports slavery, and Paul encourages it, even giving advice to slaves as to how they should act. So, as it’s so obviously not from your bible, how, John, did you arrive at the idea that slavery is wrong? Where did that meme (a meme that contradicts the direct commands of the bible) come from?

                                    You want to talk about Western civilisation, fine, let’s talk about science, Evolutionary theory, medicine, geology, astronomy, engineering, aeronautics, marine architecture, warfare, common law, human rights, the rights of appeal, public education… Please demonstrate how these pillars of western civilisation arose from, and were based on, Christian theology.

                                    Tell me, for example, how did Christian theology inspire chemistry and the formulation of the periodic table? How did Christian theology inspire germ theory?

                                    Regarding human rights, please explain why it was Cyrus the Great who enacted the first charter of human rights, granting, amongst other things, religious freedom to all subjects.

                                    From the United Nations:

                                    Known today as the Cyrus Cylinder (539 B.C.E), this ancient record has now been recognized as the world’s first charter of human rights. It is translated into all six official languages of the United Nations and its provisions parallel the first four Articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.”

                                    From Babylon, the idea of human rights spread quickly to India, Greece and eventually Rome. There the concept of “natural law” arose, in observation of the fact that people tended to follow certain unwritten laws in the course of life, and Roman law was based on rational ideas derived from the nature of things.

                                    Documents asserting individual rights, such as the Magna Carta (1215), the Petition of Right (1628), the US Constitution (1787), the French Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen (1789), and the US Bill of Rights (1791) are the written precursors to many of today’s human rights documents.

                                    Where’s Christianity in that, John?

                                    Please, tell me.

                                    And yes, sorry, but you did try to say the founders of western democracy, the Greeks, were (or at least “some of them,” as you said) Christian.

                                    So please tell me, how could the founders of western democracy be Christian 500 years before Jesus, and 600 years before Christianity?

                                    I really want to hear this. It sounds fascinating…

                                    Like

                                    1. Whew! All those words and not a single answer to the question!

                                      It should be simple.
                                      Go to Wikipedia
                                      Cut and paste some names of humanists/enlightenment figures who championed the abolition of slavery.

                                      Or maybe go back here: http://www.humanrights.com/what-are-human-rights/brief-history/cyrus-cylinder.html

                                      You can use your free will to decide which source best answers the query.

                                      Like

                                      1. You want to continue with the slavery angle? Really? Fine, address the questions put to you…

                                        Like

                                        1. …and scene…

                                          Thanks for watching everybody! Hope you enjoyed the spectacle.

                                          Like

                                          1. Oh, and I still really, really, really want to hear how the founders of western democracy were “Christian” 500 years before Jesus, and 600 years before Christianity.

                                            Like

                                          2. Answer the question. Why did non-Christians abolish slavery while Christians were still trading in human misery?

                                            You wanted to pursue this line, so answer the question… then we can discuss science, Evolutionary theory, medicine, geology, astronomy, engineering, aeronautics, marine architecture, warfare, common law, human rights, the rights of appeal, public education and how these pillars of western civilisation arose from, and were based on, Christian theology.

                                            Like

  9. You know I’m a fan, SOM… Although I spend a lot of time wiping the tears from historians eyes because of you 😉

    Liked by 1 person

    1. And I make Jesus cry, too!

      That one broke my heart.

      Liked by 1 person

  10. And I make Jesus cry, too!

    That one broke my heart.

    Liked by 1 person

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