Silence of Mind

Where God Speaks and Creation Listens

The Bible for Dummies and Atheists

The Bible is so clear in its meaning.

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So it is absolutely amazing to see your average, bright, beautiful and talented atheist  project the inner monsters of atheism upon the most valuable collection of literature in the history of mankind.

Case in point: Tonight’s daily Mass reading from the Book of Leviticus; 19:1-2; 11-18.

In this reading God presents mankind a set of the best ethics ever written down by the hand of man.

And regularly throughout the reading, God presents himself as the authority for those ethics.

The LORD said to Moses,
“Speak to the whole assembly of the children of Israel and tell them:
Be holy, for I, the LORD, your God, am holy.
“You shall not steal.
You shall not lie or speak falsely to one another.
You shall not swear falsely by my name,
thus profaning the name of your God.
I am the LORD.
“You shall not defraud or rob your neighbor.
You shall not withhold overnight the wages of your day laborer.
You shall not curse the deaf,
or put a stumbling block in front of the blind,
but you shall fear your God.
I am the LORD.
“You shall not act dishonestly in rendering judgment.
Show neither partiality to the weak nor deference to the mighty,
but judge your fellow men justly.
You shall not go about spreading slander among your kin;
nor shall you stand by idly when your neighbor’s life is at stake.
I am the LORD.
“You shall not bear hatred for your brother in your heart.
Though you may have to reprove him,
do not incur sin because of him.
Take no revenge and cherish no grudge against your fellow countrymen.
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
I am the LORD.”

What is so “mean” and “stupid” (to use the words of His Atheist Imminence, Stephen Fry) about God who commands that each of us love his neighbor and treat him fairly?

Silence of Mind

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30 responses to “The Bible for Dummies and Atheists”

  1. Wally Fry Avatar
    Wally Fry

    That would be a good question.

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  2. ColorStorm Avatar
    ColorStorm

    And I would turn the question around and ask: By what law Your Excellency in a universe of random ‘presentation’ (my word for atheistic creation) does it permit the lying of a 2 year old boy, or the thievery of a two year old girl?

    There is NO answer apart from God.

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    1. silenceofmind Avatar
      silenceofmind

      ColorStorm,

      I was wondering about how nature can create a volcano that wipes out the entire city of Pompeii and in Rome, a woman gives birth to a child.

      If nature is all there is, wouldn’t justice and ethics always be to the advantage of the stronger?

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      1. ColorStorm Avatar
        ColorStorm

        It’s a good thing there is One stronger than nature SilenceoM. Remember when the great storm almost capsized the boat to the point of the apostles fear of drowning, the Lord of creation said: ‘Peace be still.’ That was enough, as the ‘great calm’ was proof nature knows its maker.

        I’m happy to be sanctified dummie.

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        1. silenceofmind Avatar
          silenceofmind

          Exactly!

          For if God is not the stronger, then some tyrant must assume that divine role.

          What follows is ruthless oppression.

          Liked by 3 people

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          1. ColorStorm Avatar
            ColorStorm

            Dang, typo- happy to be ‘a’ sanctified dummie.

            Some may think I was calling you a dummie 😉

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    2. john zande Avatar
      john zande

      Hi Colorstorm

      I’m sorry, but that didn’t make any sense at all.

      Could you explain it, please?

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  3. insanitybytes22 Avatar
    insanitybytes22

    Good question, Silence. Just for the record, I have managed to avoid putting a stumbling block in front of the blind.

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    1. silenceofmind Avatar
      silenceofmind

      In the case of atheists, the blocks they present to themselves, by themselves, crush any blocks set forth by the Little People.

      Liked by 1 person

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  4. russell Avatar
    russell

    Hi Silence,

    If this message was consistent throughout the book, I don’t think many atheists would respond negatively to it. I’m curious if your Mass readings include all the verses in Leviticus. Non-believers tend to take issue with‬ ‭20‬:‭9, 13, 27, 21:17-23, 24:16, 25:45-46, 26:15-29, etc. Those are just a few that stuck out in the chapter you quoted and the next few when I skimmed it a minute ago.

    I think most atheists believe there is much good in the Bible. Sadly, the verses I mentioned commanded torturous killing of rebellious children, homosexuals, “wizards,” and those who would speak out against God or His laws; forced the faithful to see those with physical handicaps or blemishes as people with profanities against God; issued structured commands regarding indefinite slavery that could be passed to children; and the very very bad things that would happen if you refuse to obey the laws (including eating your own children). These are a small snippet of the challenges that call into question the moral supremacy of the Levitical doctrine you’re referencing.

    Loving our neighbor and killing them for their differing beliefs doesn’t seem consistent for many people. As a consequence, they often harshly question and challenge believers to examine and justify their belief in this God and its commands. While it does happen on occasion, it’s more rare for atheists to actually criticize the God behind those beliefs (since they doubt that God exists).

    The verses you quoted are generally acceptable to most doubters. Unfortunately, when taken as a whole, skeptics often find it difficult to regard Leviticus as the best ethics ever written when compared to many others (non-biblical) before and after this story was recorded.

    I hope this makes sense. I’m commenting from my phone with a very short window and very little time.

    Gentleness and respect,
    —Russell

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    1. silenceofmind Avatar
      silenceofmind

      Russell,

      Which verses of the ones you cite are enforced by any regime in the West?

      Answer: None. Not for centuries.

      The atheist complaint against the Bible is thus, ridiculous and malicious.

      Further, I’ve never met an atheist who thought there was any good in the Bible.

      The fact that atheists have to go back centuries or even millennia to find their main complaints against the Bible and Christianity demonstrates a sinister, unquenchable bias that defies reason.

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      1. russell Avatar
        russell

        Hi Silence,

        There seems to be some confusion.

        You said what you quoted from Leviticus represented “the best ethics ever written down by the hand of man.” Then you essentially asked (as I interpreted it) why atheists are upset about a God who commands us to love our neighbors and treat them fairly.

        My response wasn’t about where these commands are currently enforced in the West. My response was to say that many atheists would probably not be upset at a God who promoted what your verses quote, but many of those same atheists are upset at believers because those atheists don’t believe that the message you quoted is consistent throughout the book of Leviticus. In other words, they aren’t upset about the good parts — only the suffering they perceive to be a result of people believing in the bad parts. The inconsistent parts, in the minds of atheists, cast doubt on the existence of that God — which makes some of them angry with believers for being so certain in the truth of inconsistent claims in an old book.

        You said you’ve never met an atheist who thought there was any good in the Bible. Yes you have. I think much of the Bible is good. Some of it is very good, even excellent.

        You said “The fact that atheists have to go back centuries or even millennia to find their main complaints against the Bible and Christianity demonstrates a sinister, unquenchable bias that defies reason.” Unfortunately, the Bible and Christianity are that old. I’m not sure how working with what we have is sinister.

        I don’t have a desire to disprove the Bible. I want much of it to be true. I’m not sure you’re hearing me. You can’t accurately paint all atheists with the brush you’re using, my friend.

        Gentleness and respect,
        —Russell

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        1. silenceofmind Avatar
          silenceofmind

          Russell,

          Atheists base their atheism on the “bad parts,” not the good parts which comprise the core of Western justice and ethical values.

          That means that atheists don’t have minds of their own since what atheists believe depends totally on those wicked Christians.

          It is absolutely amazing that your argument is based on atheists not having minds of their own, and you think that’s okay.

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          1. russell Avatar
            russell

            Hi Silence,

            I’m having some trouble with each point in your argument.

            As an example, I’m an atheist and I don’t base my lack of belief in a God on “the bad parts” (as I define them), but on the inconsistent or untrustworthy parts.

            Next, I’m not sure how the good parts comprise the core of Western justice as apart from the non-Jewish beliefs about fairness and equality. I mean how can we say conclusively which parts were ultimately from Leviticus vs earlier or other ethical codes?

            How does atheist belief depend “totally” on Christians and, if that were true, how would that mean that atheists can’t have their own minds?

            I’m probably just misinterpreting your words. Would you be willing to repeat your previous comment with a little more detail to make it easier to follow the logic, step by step?

            Gentleness and respect,
            —Russell

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            1. silenceofmind Avatar
              silenceofmind

              Russell,

              You are remarkably coherent for an atheist and quite well mannered, I must admit with a significant bit of envy.

              Nevertheless, the reason atheists find inconsistencies in the Bible is because they do not understand the meaning of the Bible.

              That is why I wrote this post.

              The complaints atheists make about Bible verses indicate a bizarre fascination with creating intentionally absurd and damaging fiction out of a culture that existed a long, long time ago, far, far away.

              Atheists in fact, hallucinate their own meaning for the Bible and then demand that Christians argue against the hallucination.

              That is a common tactic that atheists use with science, history and philosophy also.

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            2. russell Avatar
              russell

              Hi Silence,

              You need not to be envious of me. You have an answer for the question of existence that you can place confidence in – and you have a strong hope for future life after death. I have neither.

              Regarding your claims: here are a few things that come to my skeptical mind. Can we be certain that the Bible is ultimately coherent and that anyone truly understands all of it? Is there any compelling reason to believe that theists, on average, understand the Bible better than atheists? Can you provide justification for the claim that (essentially all) atheists find inconsistencies simply because they don’t understand the Bible? Many theists admit inconsistencies, correct?

              As for this post, I was just responding to your claim there. I do not normally go around challenging the Old Testament or citing it as a reason that I personally don’t believe in the Christian God. I just wanted to point out why many atheists will take issue with your using some phrases in Leviticus as representing the perfect ethic. When taken as a whole, most Christians will take issue with the Levitical view of morality.

              If atheists are hallucinating, my guess is that most don’t know they are. I admit it’s a possibility, though. However, to get past this issue, perhaps you can spell out what you believe is the true meaning of the Bible? If you do, I have a hunch many non-believers will object to your interpretation based not on the inconsistencies alone, but also on what they see as a less-than-ideal system of ethics.

              Many atheists see the New Testament as being farm more harmful than the Old, and they base these objections on what they think is the foundation of meaning in the Bible. They refer to things like the doctrine of original sin, the Fall of Man, the Flood, the choosing of the people, the Old Testament law, the tortuous capital threats and punishments for failure to follow the law (fear), the barbarous commands for how to treat their neighbors outside their borders, the arrival of a solution (Jesus) that didn’t seem consistent with many of the Old Testament expectations of God’s messiah, the un-attributed and conflicting gospels, the need for a sacrifice, atonement based upon belief in something for which we have insufficient evidence, and, most importantly, the doctrine of Hell. These are just a few of a long list of objections that some atheists will have. Many find other issues more significant. Others many object to a completely different list.

              Whatever your view of the meaning of scripture, it’s probably going to include some of these (or other) principles which most skeptics will find morally insufficient compared to the attempts at reasoned ethics (vs divine command) that we can reach today. Few atheists claim that modern ethics are perfect, but they think we should keep working them out rather than sticking with what we had millennia ago. According to many non-believers, such older ethical systems tend to cause more unnecessary suffering on average and isolate groups rather than bringing them together.

              I agree that it is a common tactic of atheists to create straw men arguments when discussing science, history, philosophy and religion. That is unfortunate. It is not limited to atheists, however. Most people who claim certainty (and there are many more gnostic theists than there are gnostic or strong atheists) have a higher tendency to do this. This brings me to my last point.

              I’d like to encourage you to strongly consider using “strong atheists” and/or “anti-theists” (when that’s appropriate) in your arguments, rather than just “atheists.” Such language is a red flag for straw men (or as you say, hallucinations of someone’s own meaning), and you seem to use it quite liberally. You’re lumping in a group of people who lack belief in any one specific God and who don’t always fall under the umbrella of beliefs you’re attacking. I’m more than happy to let gnostic or strong atheists (or anti-theists) defend their own position, but much of what you argue against just isn’t a position held by many people in the atheist camp. As such, you’re creating a false understanding of negative/soft/weak/agnostic atheism in the minds of those who read your posts. It strikes of bad philosophical understanding to many, and I know that’s not what you want. You want your claims to be cogent and trustworthy even to those who understand philosophical belief positions.

              Gentleness and respect,
              –Russell

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        2. silenceofmind Avatar
          silenceofmind

          Russell,

          Taking your concise comment in manageable sections:

          “Unfortunately, the Bible and Christianity are that old. I’m not sure how working with what we have is sinister.”

          Characterizing cultural practices that haven’t been used for millennia as the essence of Bible wisdom is sinister and atheists do it all the time.

          The atheist intentionally fails to see the incredibly vast ethical development of mankind expressed in the Biblical stories of God and his Chosen People.

          That is because atheists cherry pick biblical verse and hallucinate their own meaning for it and then demand that Christians explain the hallucination.

          I have explained that atheist phenomenon in other comments but it bears repeating.

          The leftist Press does this all the time with Republicans who challenge Barack Obama.

          You may have noticed how Governor Scott Walker is now under intense pressure and impending destruction for failing to take responsibility for the Press’ hallucinations about comments severely critical of President Obama, made by former New York mayor, Rudy Giuliani.

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          1. russell Avatar
            russell

            Characterizing cultural practices that haven’t been used for millennia as the essence of Bible wisdom is sinister and atheists do it all the time.

            Yes, unfortunately this is a common practice. However, it is not a practice that all atheists fall into. I do not think that Leviticus represents the essence of Bible wisdom. I was just responding to your question about why doubters will knock a God who promotes those few verses you quoted. In most cases, it’s not because of those verses. It’s because of the other ones that seem to conflict with those.

            The atheist intentionally fails to see the incredibly vast ethical development of mankind expressed in the Biblical stories of God and his Chosen People.

            Many atheists have a problem with the doctrine of Hell which is a part of the ultimate ethic in the Bible. We should need the reminder of eternal torture in order to be good. If this is a factor in our decision to make good choices, it takes away from our ability to be truly moral – or so goes the argument that many non-believers will make. Many skeptics also see quite a few other issues with the ethic of the New Testament (the treatment of the Pharisees’ is one of many). Even the Sermon on the Mount has some questionable material to some modern ethicists and falls short of other ethical systems.

            That is because atheists cherry pick biblical verse and hallucinate their own meaning for it and then demand that Christians explain the hallucination.

            I think I responded to this a bit in my previous comment. As for cherry-picking verses, it is unfortunate and it goes both ways. I honestly mean this with love and no disrespect. The verses you (or your reading) picked for this post seem cherry-picked when attempting to demonstrate how great the Levitical system was.

            Gentleness and respect,
            –Russell

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  5. siriusbizinus Avatar
    siriusbizinus

    Do you need an atheist hug, SoM?

    They’re less invasive than the priestly kind. 😉

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    1. silenceofmind Avatar
      silenceofmind

      Sirius,

      I blog about atheists and their compulsion to express the monsters of atheism to an undeserving world, and guess who shows up?

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      1. siriusbizinus Avatar
        siriusbizinus

        You do!

        Peace and love to you, SoM!

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        1. silenceofmind Avatar
          silenceofmind

          Sirius,

          Your impersonation of a Christian is so flawless that I am, right at this moment, dying of shame.

          You are so nice.

          And you respond to my meanness, with more niceness.

          That just isn’t fair!

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  6. john zande Avatar
    john zande

    Leviticus 19:19… Kill those who wear mixed thread. Nice rule!

    And anyway, every rule that is contained in the Pentateuch (first conceived of in the 7th and 6th century BCE) originated with a pre-Pharoah tribe of Egypt called the Kemet, whose concept of truth, law and justice was consolidated into a theory called ‘Ma’at’. Every rule in Bible (and especially the commandments) are derived from the 42 principles of Ma’at.

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    1. silenceofmind Avatar
      silenceofmind

      John,

      Here is Leviticus 19:19 from the real Bible, not the atheist’s Devil’s bible (some atheist Google destination):

      “19 Keep true to my commandments; do not mate any beast of thine with one of another sort, or sow thy field with a mixed crop, or wear garments woven of two different fabrics.”

      In these types of commands, the one’s atheists conveniently fail to notice that they haven’t been practiced for centuries if not millennia, God’s purpose is to separate the Chosen People, culturally and ethically from the heathen.

      I always wonder why atheists provide chapter and verse from the Bible but never bother to actually read and research what the verse actually says.

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      1. john zande Avatar
        john zande

        these types of commands…. haven’t been practiced for centuries if not millennia

        Mmm, why is that, SOM? Did Yhwh make a mistake in issuing the command in the first place… Is that why we don’t stone children to death for cursing their parents? (Lev 20:19) 🙂

        Have you got that part in the bible where these laws were ordered null an void? I mean, Jesus certainly didn’t overrule them, did he? He said Moses Law was to stand until the end of the universe.

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        1. silenceofmind Avatar
          silenceofmind

          John,

          Why?

          Because humanity of antiquity wasn’t as saintly as the modern, Christianized atheist of today.

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          1. john zande Avatar
            john zande

            Errrum, that didn’t address the question, SOM.

            Did Yhwh make a mistake issuing those rules in the first place? If so, can you please show me the part in the bible where he then made these rules null and void.

            We know Jesus didn’t render them obsolete. In fact, he said the complete opposite.

            I look forward to your answer, and perusing that part of the good book.

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        2. silenceofmind Avatar
          silenceofmind

          John,

          Once cultural practices no longer have a purpose they fall out of use.

          Since commands like that prohibit murder and chasing after another person’s spouse are normative for all of mankind, they are timeless.

          The challenge is to gain an understanding of human nature so that with our own intellect we can gain insight into what we have in common with our brother.

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  7. insanitybytes22 Avatar
    insanitybytes22

    Sorry Silence, I can’t nest this properly, but Russel above said, “Regarding your claims: here are a few things that come to my skeptical mind. Can we be certain that the Bible is ultimately coherent and that anyone truly understands all of it? Is there any compelling reason to believe that theists, on average, understand the Bible better than atheists?”

    Yes, yes we can be certain the bible is utimately coherent. It constantly cross references and verifies itself and it tells the same story in a variety of ways, in metaphors, parables, allegory, history and psalms. No matter what voice you learn in, there it is, the same message. One of the most amazing things about the bible is that the ideas are simple enough for a child to understand but also so complex they can keep scholars busy for years.

    “Is there any compelling reason to believe that theists, on average, understand the Bible better than atheists?”

    Living water! The bible comes alive, it is infused with the Holy Spirit, it reveals itself to you when you take that leap of faith. Read as a two dimensional peer reviewed science paper by a skeptic and it remains somewhat flat, easily misinterpreted.

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    1. Arkenaten Avatar
      Arkenaten

      You mean like all those dead saints the writer of Matthew describes crawling out the ground, and going Walkabout in downtown Jerusalem, IB?

      If this is what you consider coherent maybe you should be taking medication?

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